Interview w/ Bill Saunders by Ryan Barnes
SR: When did you really get into waterfowl hunting?
Saunders: I started hunting with my dad when I was little. He had to pack me on his shoulders when we hunted the edge of the Horicon Marsh in Wisconsin. I would go with him and his friends duck hunting, pheasant hunting, deer hunting, and then when I was 12 years old I started going duck hunting. I was just fascinated with the decoys, the calling and everything associated with it. From there it just kind of became an addiction. I remember my mom or dad used to drop me off before I could drive on the edge of the river and say “we’ll be back to pick you up in 6 hours” and we’d head down with a bag of decoys and hunt. It just steam rolled from there. This was back before the internet, before social media. I couldn’t imagine getting into it today. It would be so easy to figure this game out. Back then we were figuring things out on our own, and I think that’s why you see a lot of innovation come from that time frame. We didn’t have the decoys, the blinds, the calls, or for that matter the internet. You just had to figure it out through trial and error. We all wanted to be better. We all wanted to make our lives a little easier. I sit back and look at all the things that we use these days that I was either around, or apart of, or was influential in, it’s kind of cool to think about.
SR: As someone who’s pioneered a lot of what we use in the waterfowling world today, what’s one of the biggest threats you see to the future of waterfowl hunting?
Saunders: If there’s a threat, it’s the threat of waterfowlers themselves losing touch with where we came from. Why we’re out there. Why we do it. I think too many waterfowlers anymore only do it for the social media “likes” and the follows or the clicks on their picture that’s only relevant for a day or two and then it goes away. I might be wrong, but I talk to a lot of younger hunters, and a lot of guys that are getting into it, and it’s changed. I got into hunting because it was a family tradition. My dad was a waterfowler, my grandpa was a waterfowler and had a sporting goods store, and on and on. I don’t really want to call it a threat to waterfowling, but I feel like a lot of guys don’t know where this stuff came from. They don’t know the history. I will say this, I do bump into a lot of younger guys that do have a good feel for it. They understand and appreciate everything. There’s also guys that I meet that, like I said, all they care about are the big piles and a bunch of clicks. Sometimes I think I’m just this old curmudgeon about stuff, or I’m old school, or whatever you want to say, but I see guys who are involved in it for what seems like the wrong reasons. I don’t want to take anything away from the guys that want to be a part of it, I just want to see people get into it for the right reasons. It’s just different. It’s changed
SR: How did you get started in the call making industry?
Saunders: I was a Grounds kid; all of us were Grounds guys. Tim- he will always be an icon. The godfather of goose. I give so much credit to the help that he gave me, and the things that he did for goose hunting, and duck hunting; but goose hunting in particular. Especially goose calling. He’ll always be the man. At the time I lived in Idaho, where it was illegal to guide for waterfowl, so I moved up Washington to guide, and once I got up there, there were lessers, and cacklers, and all these different birds with different voices. I was just like “these aren’t honkers man!” These were a bunch of different birds, and the only thing that anybody had was a honker call. Nobody had a call that was built specifically for little birds. There was nothing like that out there. This was about the beginning of when the short-reed came out. Tim had come out with the half-breed, and about the same time I had moved up here he had come out with the Super Magnum, which was a little bit of an easier call to blow. But coming up here and running into all these lessers, and cacklers, and all these different sized birds- I wanted a call that sounded like them. Nothing was out there that was made for them. With the exception of the half breed. Even though it wasn’t intended for lessers, it still had that lesser scratch that I think you need to have to kill them. But It still didn’t match it. It wasn’t tuned to match their voice. That’s where it started. I wanted to build something more specific for the birds that I was hunting. I mean I was trying to make a living. I was guiding. I was trying to feed a family, and if anyone’s ever tried to make a living as a full-time hunting guide they know it’s tough. You don’t do this because you want to get rich, you do this because you love it. You do this because you’re passionate about it. There’s not a lot of money it. Eventually there will be. Like anything if you stick with it, and you work hard, and get good at your craft, and become someone who’s proficient at it, then yeah there’s some money in it, but not a lot. That’s how it all started. I wanted to build a call that I could use. And the first calls that we built weren’t necessarily that user-friendly, especially because short reeds were just coming out. I mean, if you could blow the half-breed, you were the shit. People were like “oh damn! Listen to that guy, he can actually run that call!” I bet there’s thousands of those half-breeds just laying in a drawer because guys bought them and couldn’t figure them out. That can probably be said about a lot of calls, including ours. Back then it was hard to try to learn how to use that style of call. Then we started using the clucker style guts and from there it just took off. We started out building a longer style call than I wanted because it was easier for guys to blow than the Traffic, and then I was like “the heck with it, I’m building this call, I want it”. From there it just kept going and going and going. I remember the first time I really got to hunt with the traffic we were shooting Full Moon Fever with Tim and Ron Radshaw and I pulled out my traffic and started blowing it, and later on that day Radshaw came up to me and was like, “What was that call you were blowing?” and I was like “It’s the call I use when I’m in traffic” and he was like “Traffic? What’s traffic?” and I told him about how traffic is what we call hunting when you don’t get to set up on the X, and how we call it “running traffic” and he said “Oh, Tim loved that call, he wanted to know what it was, he loved the sound of it!”. That, to me, was one of the coolest things anyone could have ever said to me. It’s kinda cool that the term “traffic” has become common terminology anymore, and it got its start from that call.
SR: What was the first call you ever made?
Saunders: I used to build calls in high school. I mean, I was not good at school! All I wanted to do was hunt. My friends used to make fun of me because I had a stack in my locker that I bet was three feet tall of hunting magazines. Anything that had to do with waterfowl hunting. I used to turn calls in high school and they were terrible, I mean they were bad. I would take wood shop every single year so I could sit at a lathe and turn goose calls and duck calls and baseball bats. I was really good at turning baseball bats. Terrible at baseball, but good at making bats. Honestly I first started out like most guys, just tinkering with parts. I would modify calls. I would put this call into that call. Do this to that call, cut this reed that way, shave that reed this way, and do all sorts of stuff to build a better mouse trap so-to-speak. Then, as a call company, the first call we made was the original guide series. That was our first one.
SR: What was the hardest part about starting your own call company, guide service, and getting into the outdoor industry?
Saunders: Not making any money. This is all I’ve ever done. The only other job I’ve ever had was working at a restaurant because I could show up to work at 4:00 in the afternoon, work all night, get off at midnight, and then I’d go hunting again. I didn’t miss a day in 7 years. All 107 days, or however long our season was back then, I didn’t miss a day. I was going every day because I wanted to be the best I could be. All I had ever wanted to be was a duck and goose hunting guide. Whenever I got asked what I wanted to be when I grew up, “I want to be a duck and goose hunting guide”. I went hunting every single day and had a night job working in the restaurant. In the summers obviously I made up for it then, but I went every day just trying to master my craft. I was going to move move to either Klamath Falls, or Tri-Cities in the Columbia Basin. Those were the two areas I wanted to move to. Tri-Cities was a lot closer, and I figured if it didn’t work out I could always run home. That was about 24 maybe 25 years ago. Jim Cripe, the owner of Outlaw Decoys, they had just come out, and I wrote him a letter. He called me back, then sent me a letter with names of all the guides in Eastern Washington. To this day I still have that letter. I came up with a friend of mine and drove around to all the different guide services and had these interviews with them and went with the one that offered me year-round employment, because I had a new wife and a baby on the way. I needed to start making a living. The hardest part was figuring out how I was going to pay my bills, because there’s not a lot of money in it. I started working as a guide, then started the call business. I went to some shows, made some money there, and here I am, 20 years later still doing it.
SR: What advice would you give someone who’s trying to get into the guiding business?
Saunders: (Laughs) Go back to school and learn how to be a doctor. Do something that makes real money. Or come to the realization that you’re not going to get rich doing this. Never forget that hunting birds and killing birds is one thing. Guiding is completely different. One thing about guiding is you’ve got to be a really good people-person; you need to be able to be comfortable around people, and you need to know what your styles and tactics are. Overall it’s just the realization that you’re not going to get rich, and that you need to become a master of your craft. Don’t be stupid. I hear and see way too much about guys being stupid. I’ve never gotten a ticket, I’ve never gotten a violation, I’ve never done anything to jeopardize what I’ve done or tarnish my name in any way, shape or form. I’ll always tell guys that. Do things by the book. Don’t fuck around, man. I mean if you truly love the sport, there’s no reason to play outside the rules for a damn duck or goose. Be honest and be true to yourself.
SR: You were a contest caller for awhile, what were some of the funnest contests that you had the chance to compete in?
Saunders: Sportsman’s Warehouse had a fun series of contests called the “Sportsman’s Warehouse Challenge” or something like that. You’d go to different stores and qualify for the big finale. The whole time of that Sportsman’s Warehouse Challenge the most fun I had was because I was around guys like Tim Grounds, Allan Stanley, Kelley Powers, Hunter Grounds, Shawn Stahl, Fred Zink, and Field Hudnall. It was like every month they would have one of these contests, and because it was a prestigious contest series and because there was some good money and prizes involved more guys started coming up and competing, and I got to be around those guys. The contest and the competition was fun, but what was more fun was hanging out with these guys and going out after the contest, talking hunting, having a beer, and sometimes having too many beers. That was the best part of it. It was just a good time, it was fun. Plus I usually would make it to the final round, cash some checks, and that made it fun too.
SR: You won over 30 contests, why’d you decide to stop competing?
Saunders: When I grew up I wanted to be a duck and goose hunting guide. Being a guide is what I’ve always wanted to do. I didn’t want to be a champion caller, but when I started the call business, if you wanted to get into big box stores and sell lots of calls you needed to win some titles. It’s not that I didn’t have fun or that I didn’t want to succeed, but I blew in contests so I could sell calls. So I could make money, so my kids had shoes, and diapers and that kind of stuff. I was just kind of over it. I think the last year I competed I entered 7 contests and won 7 of them, and figured “eh, this is good, I’m done”. There’s no doubt that while I was at it I had those aspirations of being world champion, but just never did. If anything I might wish that I had stuck with it longer and actually finished it out, but in the end, though, I don’t have any regrets. Like I say I always just wanted to be a hunting guide. That’s what I focused on. With family and starting my own guide business I just needed to focus on that.
SR: So you’ve been in the guide business for over 20 years now, in your opinion, what makes a good guide?
Saunders: When I look at my guides and think about what makes them good, number one, they’re good people. They’re honest, they’re somewhat hardworking. But they’re honest hard working guys that are passionate about the sport. They want to be successful. That’s one thing I try to instill in them; the clients want to kill birds, there’s no doubt about it, that’s why they paid to go on a guided hunt, but in the end, like I tell my clients, the guides want to get them even more than you do. That’s because we want to be successful for our clients. A good guide puts the safety and success of the hunt above all else. Now what makes a good guide as far as being a killer? You’ve got to be somewhat proficient with a call, you don’t have to be a world champion caller, but you have to know how to call and when to call. You need to know how to read birds, how to set a spread, how to hide, how to adapt, how to change things, how to think outside the box on your own and how to do things on the fly. The best guides I know aren’t the best callers or the guys with the most Facebook likes or the most clicks on the picture. The best guides I know are the guys who are out there, and who have spent time in the field. Guys that know. You’ll never be good if you’re not able to draw on your knowledge, and the only way to gain knowledge is through witness and participation.
SR: What are your 3 most important tips for killing early season geese?
Saunders: Having a field that has birds in it is most important. You always want to be able to set up on the X. I’ve spent a lot of years shooting early season honkers, and hunting the X is the main thing. Number one is definitely scout, and get on a field that has birds. After that I’d just fall back on what it always takes to be successful: Number one, have a good hide. Number two is your decoys, and number 3 is your calling. That’s the way that I look at it. Because if they’re going to see you, then they’re never going to come in. You need to be proficient at hiding. You have to have good looking decoys that look like a bird, it’s as simple as that. Overall, the most important thing is setting up on the X, or at least close to it. They’re so set in their ways and in such a pattern this time of the year. But the thing is, anything I tell you I could contradict, just because I’ve seen all this stuff happen, and had success doing the exact opposite. But in general, you’re going to have a lot better hunts on the X. Now, later in the year when birds start getting shot up and pressured and scattered and they’re not so family oriented, oh man, running traffic is my favorite thing to do. I think I run traffic more than I set up on the X anymore.
SR: What are your 3 most important tips for killing late season honkers?
Saunders: Hide, you need to be invisible. Decoys, the best you can afford even if it’s not a lot of them, and smart calling. Typically late in the year less is more when it comes to calling. But, like I said, I can contradict everything I just told you because there have been times where I couldn’t get the trailer into the field and I would use silhouettes and wind-socks, or I had to call really aggressive to get birds to come in. That’s one thing that I don’t think a lot of young waterfowlers know; they read the stuff online, or they watch a TV show or a video on the internet and they think that’s the only way to do it, but I can contradict everything I’ve just told you because there is nothing ever set in stone, ever. There is no set way of doing this. If you play the game where you run a pattern over and over again, you’re going to run into birds that are gonna say “fuck you, we’ve seen that before”, that’s why you have to be able to adapt. The only way to be good at that, and I keep coming back to this, is through witness and participation. That’s so important when it comes to being successful. You need to put yourself in that position to say “OK, I’ve seen this before, and I did this to make it work”.
SR: What’s the craziest thing you’ve ever done to get on the feed you wanted?
Saunders: Nothing. Cuz if I have to do something crazy to get on a field I want, fuck it, I’ll set up on the field next to it and run traffic. I’ve never had to anything stupid or out of the ordinary to get out of the field.
SR: That’s probably part of the luxury of being able to be such a high caliber caller?
Saunders: Being a good caller has helped and will help me out in the field, but being a smart hunter is why I think I’ve been more successful. I’m able to pull on experience. This will be my 24th or 25th season guiding, and my 30-something year of waterfowling. Like I said at the beginning, I was obsessed with this stuff. I immersed myself in everything waterfowl. Don’t get me wrong, I get my ass kicked all the time. Birds will whoop my ass. The time you start to think you can kill every goose out there, you’re sorely mistaken. I get beat all the time. Birds will flare off my calling, or they flare off my hide. I’ve just learned that being able to pull on my experiences I’ve had over the years has helped me more than anything. More than calling, more than blinds, more than decoys. If you get around guys who’ve been around this for a long time, they can see birds at a distance and they just know if they’re going to kill them.
SR: If you could give advice to yourself when you started out guiding, what would it be?
Saunders: Don’t party so much! I’m getting older, my body’s breaking down. I still want to run like I’m 20, and I can still hang with a lot of the younger guys, but I tell you what, take care of yourself. That’s what I would tell my younger self. Take better care of yourself. I want to do this for as long as I can. When I was younger I could guide hunts all day, drink all night, and wake up the day after and do it all over again. Now I am just trying to take better care of myself so I can keep doing it, because I love it, and I want to do it for a really long time. That’s the advice I’d give to anyone, just take care of yourself so you can do the things you love for as long as you want.
